Mark This! Podcast, Episode 6, Women in Leadership
Host: Heather Dotchel, Corporate Communications
Guests: Barbara Flanagan, President, Student Nutrition and Brisbane Vaillancourt, Regional Vice President, Collegiate Hospitality
It's time to Mark This. A podcast in which we peel back the curtain to reveal the cool and innovated people, programs and projects that are happening all over Aramark's varied lines of business. I'm Heather Dotchel. As a member of Aramark's Communications team, I see and hear about all of the amazing things that are happening across our company. These remarkable initiatives happen because we have remarkable people behind them. Building opportunity, building innovation, and building community. Mark This provides a space in which we can explore these initiatives with our audience.
Today we are sitting down with two women who lead their teams day in and day out. Barbara Flanagan is the president of Student Nutrition, our line of business that serves K through 12 institutions across the United States. And Brisbaine Vaillancourt is a Regional Vice President in our Collegiate Hospitality business. We asked the two of them to share their leadership paths, vision and motivation with all of you today, as we embark on this month that celebrates trailblazing women. Barbara, can you tell us a bit about yourself, your current position, and a snapshot of your career ladder?
Barbara Flanagan (01:31):
Thanks, Heather. I'm so excited to be with you guys today. It's always one of the hardest questions I'm asked, is to talk a little bit about myself. But because I of course have a lot to talk about. But I'll try to summarize some of it.
As you said, I'm the President of Student Nutrition. It took me about 25 years of a career ladder progression to actually get here. I started with Aramark actually in May of 1991 as an assistant food service director in a small school district in South Texas. I progressed my way to director, general manager, district manager, VPO and RVP, all in the same line of business and in the same region. I usually tell people I'm an enigma. Not happens to many people where you can stay in the same line of business, same state, and grow your career.
But Aramark afforded me that. In 2014, I actually was given an opportunity to go over to Collegian Hospitality as an RVP. I was there for four years and in 2018 was given the opportunity to come back to Student Nutrition as the president, which is where I am today.
As for me personally, I've been married for almost 30 years. I have two children that are grown. Probably the most proud parent moment of both of them. One is in IT supporting Salesforce in a company. And my youngest is in her second year of school, law school actually. And that's of course given us an empty nest and my husband and I travel a lot more now that we don't have children at home. So that's a little bit about me professionally and personally.
Bris, I'm going to repeat this request for you. A bit about yourself, your current position and your career progression so far.
Brisbaine Vaillancourt (03:20):
Well, I'll start off with some stuff personally, so I am not afforded the same travel adventures as Barbara because I have three littles, which you know. I have a seven-year-old, a five-year-old, and a one-year-old daughter. So when I'm not working, I'm definitely chasing them on a daily basis. And have been married happily for nine years. And it's really my family that inspires me to be the leader I am every day.
I started in the hospitality industry when I was 13 years old as a busser in a local restaurant, and I still remember my father picking me up every Friday and Saturday collecting, counting the ones and how excited I was. And never really left the industry since that day I started. While I was in college, I started working for a small privately owned chain throughout all four years of school. I ended up graduating with a degree in marketing, but ended up staying with that same company and took a management role.
13 years later, I still was employed by them and moved up from server all the way to vice president of operations with multiple roles over that 13 year timeframe. In 2016, I thought it was time for me to start looking for other opportunities, larger organizations. And that's when I came across Aramark and was hired as a District Manager in the workplace experience group. In that role, I had about 10 different clients across five states. And it really excited me to work for a large organization that just had the scope and opportunities that Aramark presents. In that role, even though I was in workplace experience group, I also got to run a PGA golf championship. Which is very different and something that has taught me a lot and helped me grow my career over time at Aramark. In 2019, I was promoted to vice president of operations in LifeWorks, overseeing one of our largest global clients. And that's when I really realized the size of our organization.
I had some exposure into some of our other domestic businesses as well as our international business, and it really solidified me wanting to continue to stay and grow my career with Aramark. In April of 2021, was given the opportunity to move in to an RVP role. I was a little nervous because it was not in workplace experience group, and it was another line of business. But now that opportunity excites me to want to even experience a different line of business. And so that's what I really like about Aramark is, there are so many different opportunities, so many people to learn from. And just, you have the world at your fingertips if you want to grow your career.
Thanks for sharing those progressions to both of you. My next question, I'm also going to ask both of you to answer, but Barbara we'll volley back to you first. What would you say was an inflection point in your path? A moment where you thought, this is what I want, this is where I want to go and this is who I want to be professionally?
Barbara Flanagan (06:23):
Well, and that's so funny when I'm listening to Brisbaine's story and thinking about the fact that 30 years have gone by in my career and how did I end up where I am today? I tell you that I remember, I think it was about the 10-year mark of my career. I had gone to a training class with different lines of business and it was a training class where they were getting you ready to be a district manager. And I remember thinking at that time, I really, really want to be somebody else when I grow up. I don't just want to be a district manager. And I actually sat down with the president of the line of business for K-12 at the time, and I said to him, "I want to be you one day. I actually want to be a president in this organization."
And at the time there was a lot of discussion in the training class about the fact that, if you ever wanted to grow past a district manager in Aramark, you had to really work for other lines of business. And I think that's important when I started with giving my career path of why I left K-12 back in 2014 was because I was trying to realize my dream of becoming a president. I left a comfort zone. I moved into something that Brisbaine you just talked about, a little bit more scary of going into something I didn't know. And it really paid off.
So I think there's always an opportunity if you've spent a long time in a career to go back and think, "When did I really decide this is what I wanted to do?" And for me it was 10 years prior to really even getting to a position where I could be a president. So I think, I would just say that to everybody that may be looking at that next position they want to go into. Sometimes you have to take some risk in getting there. But at the same time, to your point, Brisbaine, this company affords you a lot of opportunity if you're willing to take some risk along the way.
Brisbaine, what was your inflection point?
Brisbaine Vaillancourt (08:29):
So I'm going to talk about two different inflection points. One was just from the mouth of myself as a little girl. I've always said, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" I've always said I want to be a president of a company. And I have kind of had that on my mind for many, many years.
I will say, and I've never shared this with Barbara. But my second inflection point was back in 2018 when Barbara was going through her promotion from regional vice president to president. I was actually at a all Aramark meeting in, I believe it was in Dallas, Texas. And they were announcing her promotion and I watched her go up on stage and speak to all of us in that room. And it was then that I realized that I could really follow that path and become a president. And seeing another person just like myself, a female on that stage really inspired me and has continued to give me the drive to be the leader I am today. And hopefully at some point in my career give me that opportunity.
Barbara Flanagan (09:32):
I mean, Brisbaine, that means the world to me that you just said that. I never realized so much an impact you can have on just speaking in front of a group of people. And if I've made that impact to you, it means the world to me. So I'm glad that that was something that not only you shared today, but that meant something to you sitting in the audience.
So I love hearing the interplay between the two of you about this particular point. And it brings to mind something that I think about frequently as I work with leaders across our company, and that's the interplay of ego and humility. You have to have certainly both I think to get ahead, one to lead and one to balance the power that you hold as a leader of a division. So Barbara, how do you balance or use that dichotomy between ego and humility to move forward?
Barbara Flanagan (10:30):
I was raised to exhibit more humility than ego. I don't know that a lot of people know my history or my story. I've talked about it in a couple of panel interviews that I've been on. But at the end of all of, my dad was a maintenance man at a school district, and my mother actually was a frontline employee in the school cafeterias. And I watched at a very young age, as a child, how they were treated as hourly employees. And it's one of the reasons that I remain humble in this position. But there's the other part of me, which is my ego, and I think everybody has to have a little bit of ego.
People would probably call me the mama bear when it comes to Student Nutrition, because my ego really comes out when we're sometimes seen as a smaller line of business. Or a business that may not matter. I look at this as we matter a lot. And my ego comes out, and you'll hear about it when someone's either interviewing me or questioning about the line of business. So I do think there is a big balance between the two. You can't over-index on one or the other because then, to your point, you will be out of balance. And that's what people see about you. And I think as a leader, especially in a service industry, you absolutely have to come to the table with some humility.
Brisbaine Vaillancourt (11:53):
Well said, Barbara. I absolutely agree with you. I think there's a fine balance between the both. For me, I like to look at this as, we're all in this together and we're all one team. And having the opportunity to start at the bottom and move up to the top has allowed me to see the business from every seat in the organization. As I continue to grow my career, I like to make sure I slow down and remember what it's like to be in that seat as well, and think about that as I make decisions. As far as ego, as a female in business, I think it's really important that we show up with confidence, but making sure it comes across as authentic.
There are people looking to Barbara and I to help give them confidence. Not everyone is given the same sense of confidence that some of us are born with. And they're looking for us to encourage them to be their whole self, to lean in a little bit more. And so I believe my role is to continue to challenge people, to make them realize the value that they bring to this organization and to help instill a little bit more confidence in them. I do make it part of my mission to help progress careers for others, and nothing really gives me more of a sense of accomplishment than that.
I love that. Who or what inspires you, Bris?
Brisbaine Vaillancourt (13:09):
That is a tough question because I am inspired by many. Personally, I would say my mother, since she is the one that has inspired me to grow into the person I am today. She's been a real estate agent for 40 plus years, and I can tell you I've done more open houses and helped close more deals in the backseat of her car as a little girl than some agents have done in a lifetime. My father always encouraged me to be like her and would tell me I can accomplish anything I put my mind to. Without the support of the two of them, I would never be where I am today. When I look at who inspires me at work, I would absolutely say, it's my entire team.
I have a continuous growth mindset and sometimes I need to coach myself to slow down. And my regional team has really been up for any challenge. And the best part about all of that is, we all have fun together, we collaborate, we all respect each other. And every person brings something to the table. In this type of team dynamics that allows us to exceed expectations, continue to deliver great results for our clients, our employees in Aramark. And having fun while doing it. There's nothing better than the two of those put together.
Barbara what inspires you? Who provides a model for you?
Barbara Flanagan (14:19):
Wow, so Brisbaine, when you talk about your parents, of course that always comes to mind. That's really your first look at how you should be in life, so it's great to hear you talk about your parents. I would say that, of course, my parents have always inspired me. But I think really the fact that the past couple of years, what we have watched our teams go through in a pandemic, and I keep saying to everyone around us that no one gave us the roadmap for a pandemic. I tell you that really did inspire me to see teams come together. And especially in student nutrition as we serve the vulnerable population in the US. But really for so many years, I think just looking around and being a leader and watching people grow their careers is what inspires me. The who that inspires me today.
It's a little bit about what you just said, Brisbaine. It's the team that works with me and the senior team in Student Nutrition, I don't know. You look at people in this industry and I would tell you that this team knocks it out of the park every day. They're so focused on providing tools and resources to the frontline to ensure that their jobs are easier, that we're able to meet the expectations of clients and consumers. I can't tell you enough how inspiring it is to watch them work as a team, and watch them come together and go around and above obstacles that are put in front of them. It makes me so proud to see what they're doing and I can't ask for a better team, when I look around the room and think what we've been able to accomplish. And if that's not inspiring, I think people really need to make sure they have a pulse. Because I'm telling you, I come to work and I think this is the most awesome team to work with because what they do is just too much for me to even put into words some days.
You both keep coming back to team as your sources of inspiration, and Brisbaine you talked specifically about it being very important to you to help nurture your team along paths of growth. As you moved through the ranks of leadership, and Bris, I'll start with you for this. What support did you look for? What did you find? What didn't you find?
Brisbaine Vaillancourt (16:44):
This is a tough question for me to answer. I didn't really go out and look for support. I think one, you need to make sure you have a network, and so when people think about support, they instantly think it comes from the top-down. And so I think support comes from really from every angle, top-down, sideways, bottom-up. And I learned this very early on in my career and I'll share that example with everyone today. It's something that I share often with people as sometimes we hire people underneath us that may have more experience. And it does help me coach some of my team as we hire some different individuals and people from the outside. I did come in to Aramark from the outside, and it can be very different for some people. Just because a lot of people at Aramark have been here for many, many years.
But first, just in general, I think it's important that you create a network and you expand your reach beyond your immediate team. So when Barbara talked earlier today about her team, I actually know all of her team. We were at a meeting in Florida and sat down, had lunch with her team, but I do know some of her team just from time at Aramark and paths crossing. And so I would absolutely agree with her that every time you talk to them, they are focused on solving for the frontline. And that's what our job is. Our job is to solve for those that serve our customers every single day. And that team makes it their mission, which is definitely exciting and definitely tip a hat off to Barbara for inspiring her team and instilling that type of leadership expectation with all of them.
The story I do want to share was, back when I was 23 years old, I was given the opportunity to become a GM. And so that's very young to be a GM. And sometimes, particularly at that age, you're managing a lot of people that are older than you. They hired a manager from outside the organization that had many more years of experience than I did, and I could have looked at it two ways. This person coming on my team, I can be threatened by them, or I can learn and I can also teach them. And so I leaned really hard into building a relationship with him and making sure that I could teach him brand specifics and he would teach me leadership skills and other things that maybe my direct report wasn't giving me. A year later we had brought that restaurant to best performing financial business that had ever been, and it was because we worked together as a team.
Hey listen, I still called the shots, but I realized the value he brought to my team and I also realized what I could learn from him. We're still really good friends today. After we won some different awards and stuff later on that year, I was promoted to a larger opportunity and he backfilled myself. And so if I was to go back in time, if I had looked at him as a threat, we wouldn't have, one made some significant improvements for the organization. Two, I wouldn't have gotten promoted and he wouldn't have gotten promoted. And so by looking at him as somebody that can help me and working together, we both grew a lot. So it's just something that I think everyone should always look at their team. Is there someone I can learn from? Because development comes from all seats in this organization, not just from the top-down.
Barbara Flanagan (20:23):
Wow, Brisbaine, that's a poignant point you just made about being early on in your career and how things happened. My entire career has been spent here in Aramark, and I tell you that I transitioned from college into a leadership role or a management role. We start out as managers, we become leaders. But early on in my career, I think what I was looking for was recognition of the job I was doing, right? You're coming out of college, you've got all the curriculum knowledge and now you're trying to put it into focus. And I was 23 years old trying to figure out how to navigate through all that. Just getting that support and recognition from the person that I was reporting into at that point meant a lot to me. And I bring that up because I think sometimes we as managers and leaders don't often understand the impact we can make on an individual's life as they're growing their career.
And to me that, early on being recognized meant so much. In fact, I was recognized for the job I was doing. I was promoted three times in five years. It's not as though the results I was getting weren't being recognized. But it's interesting, at the time I only reported into men, so we're going back 25 years ago in this organization. There really wasn't a lot of diversity at many levels of this organization. And I didn't find the people I was reporting into, who had a lot of my same life experiences. And so it was really hard at that point to find a mentor, or someone to help, help me navigate the path. What was interesting about it is I did find a mentor outside of Aramark and actually was a superintendent in one of the school districts I worked in. And although he was a man, and I don't say that tongue in cheek, but as I said, there just were so few females that were in the levels of leadership at that point.
But one of the things he did for me early on that had such a huge impact on my career is, he recognized my leadership ability before I recognized it in myself. And I remember to this day, and I've said this on a couple of panel interviews also. He said to me, "Barbara, you will be able to go as far in the service industry as you want to go, because you're going to be that great of a leader." And I go back to that. I remember the day I was sitting in the room, what he said, how he said it, etc. And every time I feel like there's a challenge in front of me that maybe I can't get over, I remember him saying that. And it comes back that you can go as far as you want. And so I think there's a couple of things, Heather, when you think about, how do people impact you early on career, what are you looking for, etc.
I do think as we continue to grow as leaders, we need to look for those people that may need our encouragement. But on the opposite side of that, you really should find someone that you can trust and navigate toward a mentor. Because those individuals will really help set you in some of those conflicts you're having in your own ability. Because they sometimes can see in you what you can't see in yourself.
That's an excellent point. And if I flip that a little bit on its head, so you're talking about how leadership who mentored you, affected you. If I were to ask your team, Barbara, about your leadership style and values, what would you hope they'd say?
Barbara Flanagan (24:12):
Well, what I would hope they would say... Actually what I know they would say, and you could interview them all tomorrow and they'd tell you this, "She's very authentic, open leader. And don't ask her a question if you don't want an honest answer." I hope they would say, I'm a caring leader and I spend a lot of time seeking to understand how this leadership team can help impact performance. Brisbaine, it means a lot to me that my team has expressed to you the same thing of all how we're working on things. So just interesting enough, and don't mean to belabor the point, but we just studied leadership team behaviors last week actually in my senior leadership team. And then for all of you that may be aware of the effectiveness institute, the controller, persuaders, stabilizer, analyzer, behavior styles. At my worst, which I always say to people, your learned behaviors, what people see when you're at your worst.
I'm a persuader controller, and for all you that may not know what that means, I persuade people to do things by telling them what to do. Haha. Anyway, I would end by saying, I would hope that they say that I'm a positive person who invests time in training and development. I think it's very important. Especially with people reporting into me that I take the time to help them develop. Because I want everyone to have the same opportunities in their career that I have had. I've been very blessed with those opportunities. And once again, I'd go back to that mentor saying, "You can be anything you want to be or what you set your mind to be." And it's not only my ability, but my role to make sure that I'm giving people the opportunity to train and develop it underneath me.
Brisbaine Vaillancourt (26:05):
Well, I'm going to just jump in right there. If I was to say what my team would say about me, I would absolutely say it would kind of be a combination of a few things. So one, they know that they are extremely important to me, and that I prioritize my time around making sure that I give them the support that they need. I think they also would say I'm very visionary, so I like to take risks. I like to push everybody outside their comfort zone. I'm quite authentic and will wear my heart on my sleeve. I also can be quite persistent. Have to tell myself to slow down a little bit. But I feel like if we are persistent and take risks, there's big payoff there.
And so I share something with my team often. It's a little quote that I say to them, but I say, "We need to be comfortable, being uncomfortable." And it resonates with people, because the minute they start to feel uncomfortable, the easiest thing to do is kind of pull back. And not lean in or press the easy button, do something that we're used to doing. But that's not how progress is made. And so the minute I start to see they're a little uncomfortable, I'm like, "This is exactly where you need to be if you're going to make progress. And we're going to make progress as a team." So for everybody out there, get comfortable, feeling uncomfortable,
Want to learn more about our guests today? Visit our newsroom on aramark.com to access more information. Thank you, Barbara and Brisbaine for joining us today to talk about your leadership roles and your paths there. And as always, I'd like to thank our listeners for tuning in to Mark This.
